On this week’s episode of The Over 50 Entrepreneur Podcast, we speak with special guest David Jenyns. David is an entrepreneur who systemized himself out of his own business and is now on a mission to do the same for other business owners. His latest book, Systemology, shares not only his expertise and experience but also resources and stories designed around helping other business owners.
“Business owners, they start off looking for freedom, but then they most often find that’s anything but what they actually get. They end up getting trapped into this business, and they get it off the ground and burn the candle at both ends, but there has to be a point at which that changes. You can’t just stay trapped in that business forever and a few key things need to happen for that to happen,” says David.
We chat about Davids’s biggest takeaways after achieving freedom, as well as:
- Leaning into the uncomfortable as an entrepreneur
- Systemizing your small business
- How he came to work directly with Michael Gerber
- His latest book, Systemology
- And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Rick Hadrava: Hey guys, this is Rick Hadrava, and this is another episode of the Over 50 Entrepreneur Podcast. You know, I’m really excited to have our guest today. And over the years, I’ve come to recognize myself that business owners really are in search of freedom. It’s what gets them started in the first place. And really, if we dig into that, freedom means different things. But two real big things, and that is really freedom of time and financial freedom.
That’s what drove me to write the book and work on the book that I’m working on right now called The Freedom Formula. But I also have recognized over the years that degree of freedom requires a whole lot of work. And it even goes deeper in that. You know, it requires the skills of other people. And I think today’s guest just candidly brings not only a big skill set here, but an entire system focused on helping business owners free themselves from the daily operations of running their business.
And I think his latest book, Systemology, you know, he not only shares his expertise and his experience, but he gives some really helpful resources, shares some stories, and it’s all designed around one thing, helping business owners. He’s an entrepreneur who systemized himself out of his own business, and now he’s on a mission to do the same for other business owners. I’m so pleased to have in the Epic Studios today and on the Over 50 Entrepreneur Podcast, way of Australia and I gotta tell you, the time difference is staggering, but David Jenyns. David, welcome to the show.
David Jenyns: Fantastic. Thank you for the warm introduction. And I’ve been looking forward to this call.
Rick: Myself as well. And you were kind enough to send me a copy of the book. And I’ve worked my way through it. And I’m super excited to share that with our audience today. But let’s stop. Let’s go back and share your story of how you got to where you are today, David.
How David Got to Where He is Today
David: I suppose the big question is, how do we go back? There are definitely a few stories along the way. And most recently, and probably one of the big insights I had was working in the digital agency. So I did own a digital agency for about 13 years. And I had really worked in that business for a good 10 of those years. And it wasn’t until I had that turning point, that defining moment, I found out we were pregnant and we’re expecting and I thought I don’t want to be that dad who’s always too busy.
I was working the really long hours, doing the 78, hour 70 to 80-hour workweeks working the evenings, the mornings, the weekends, just really burning the candle. And I thought I need to go deep into understanding how do you build a business that works without you? So I started reading all the books, you know, Built to Sell and Scaling Up and Traction and Work The System. And a lot of the books I found, yeah, they really focused heavily on selling you the idea of the systems, and the E Myth.
That’s I mean, that’s an absolute classic. And that talks a lot about systemizing business, but it doesn’t really give you the how-to. Where do you get started? And that was the big sort of challenge for me. And but I did spend a good amount of time working myself out before we hired the CEO. She ran that business for about three years with me very much out of the business. I took some time off, really focusing on the kids and the family for quite some time and then just realize myself.
It’s funny I find with business because there’s been a lot of businesses I’ve been involved in, and you just kind of fall into it sometimes. And then you jump from one thing to the next. And there’s not a huge amount of strategic thought thinking about the impact that you’re going to have, the projects that you want to work on, the freedom that you want to give yourself, whether that’s the freedom to work hard, or it’s the freedom to step back when you need to, or just that freedom.
Because it’s funny, business owners and I love your introduction and the whole premise of the podcast and the books that you’ve got coming up because business owners, they start off looking for freedom, but then they most often find that’s anything but what they actually get. They end up getting trapped into this business, and they get it off the ground and burn the candle at both ends. But there has to be a point at which that changes. You can’t just stay trapped in that business forever and a few key things need to happen for that to happen.
Rick: You’re absolutely right. Matter of fact, what we found is business owners that don’t get themselves out of that, they typically grind themselves out. They come across some kind of adversity, and a lot of times they shut the doors and something they’ve created for years becomes, it loses all its value, right? And everything we’ve done.
And but you figured that out through the education and you actually accomplished the freedom. What did you learn? You know, we talk about freedom from a standpoint of doing bigger things, or, like you said, taking time off to do other things with your family or whatever. What did, what was your biggest takeaway in your time once you got that freedom? You got the CEO in place and you had this, because it really was time, right? And financially had to come with that to give you the freedom of time as well, right?
David: For sure. I think the biggest thing that I learned was the chance to sit back and then just listen. Listen to the business, listen to the thoughts that are going on in my head and thinking about the direction that I wanted to head because when I was in it and just grinding it out, I wasn’t really hearing, you know, what my heart was speaking to. And I kind of realized, I mean, I got into the digital agency because I was passionate about it.
But then I lost that passion because I’m a creative and I love solving problems and coming up with new ideas and seeing them come into the world. And I got trapped in the agency, probably, I would say about seven years too long, where it felt like I was just going through the motions because I created this machine where I was the center cog and everything would rely on me to keep turning.
And the team would come to me, the clients would come to me. I just built myself into the business and a big part of that was I was the business who got it off the ground. I knew how to do the thing. Like, I was the digital marketer. And I see that all too often where sometimes it’s a blessing and a curse. A lot of business owners, they get started thinking that they can do the thing so they start doing the thing. You know, they’re the hairdresser, they’re the accountant, they’re the lawnmower.
I mean, whatever it is, they think that they, because they can do the thing, they can run the business and then you very quickly realize that there’s a whole huge range of skills and other things that you need to run the business and you’re so trapped into doing the thing, it becomes increasingly more difficult to step away. And then even as you start to build up the team around you. You’ve effectively trained them that you are the knight in shining armor whenever there’s a problem, when the client’s banging on the door, when, you know, you need to get more leads, when you’ve got a staffing, everybody just comes to you, the business owner.
And you’ve trained them. And it’s hard because all of that got reinforced. You’ve had the success of building the business to where you are today. And by doing all of the micromanaging, by keeping across things, by delivering to a certain standard. So all of that in your brand gets reinforced that this is good behavior, but it builds up bad habits. And you need to go through that first little bit to get the business to a certain size, but then you got to break the habits. Otherwise, you get stuck like I did, and seven years passes and you’re like, Where did that time go?
Rick: And it’s a great point because I see that with small businesses all the time. They have a technical skill or expertise. They gather some success. And then they start to, they hit a wall. And it requires kind of different skills and different people sometimes, quite honestly, to break through to that other side.
And I really like the way that you put that. Well, let’s circle back. And I’m going to head us down the direction towards the book. And but I want to go back. You mentioned E Myth. And you have more than just a reading love of the book E Myth. You’ve gotten to know Michael and his wife. Share a little bit about how that became to be and what you learned from your time there.
How David Came to Work With Michael Gerber
David: That I think speaks to exactly what you talk about around this idea of freedom and opportunity because towards the tail end of the work working inside the agency, when we found out we were pregnant, I’ve decided right I need to hire my CEO and systemize myself out of the role. So I’ve done that and literally not more than one month after feeling like that was complete and Melissa started stepping in and taking over, I got an email, completely out of the blue, from a lady called Luz Delia Gerber.
Now I didn’t know Luz Delia, but I definitely knew the surname Gerber. Because the E Myth is considered by many as, you know, one of the best business books of all time. Like it’s sold a huge, tremendous amount of copies. So in all the emails said was call me. And I was like, Oh, this is a little bit random. I was, I’m an early riser, so it was 7 am in Melbourne, but I knew that would be in the afternoon on the west coast in the state. So I just called the phone call and started chatting with Luz Delia.
And it’s funny, in the book, actually, because the Gerber’s love to record everything, I actually got my hands on that original recording and have it transcribed and put into the book. The short version of what happened was, she said, Look, Michael’s just turned 80 and he’s written the last book in his E Myth series called Beyond the E Myth. And for the first time, we’ve decided not to go through a traditional publisher, all of the previous books.
They all went through Harper Collins, but Michael’s sort of getting on a little bit and he’s thinking about legacy and wants to maintain the rights to his work so we can kind of think about how it’s controlled and looked after beyond him. So she said, Oh, look, we’re going to self-publish and launch this book. And I need someone to do the launch. And however it happened, I’m not sure. I came across your work from this is the work that I do in the digital agency, she said, I watched the video, I signed up to your list and I watched you launch my first book, which is a book called Authority Content.
She said, I love what you did. And I’d love for you to work on the book launch for Michael. And I said, I don’t even do book launches. This is not my thing. And she goes, Oh, but I saw what you did and I think, you know, you’d be the perfect fit. And she said, I don’t know what it is but for whatever reason, I just think you’re the guy. So I started, she said, Look, the book launches in three months. She goes, we’ve kind of got a real tight timeline. And I said, Yep, look, I’m happy to do it. And she said, but you’ll have to work solidly on these for three months. You know, put everything else aside and just work on this project.
And I just for a moment, I kind of paused and thought about it. I said, I’d love to do it. And she goes, and then I said, I’d love to do it and I’d love to volunteer to do these projects for Michael as just an opportunity to work with Michael and learn from Michael. So I went down that rabbit hole and it was just amazing to work in that capacity. I’ve never seen doors open quicker than just mentioning Michael’s name and I would have people fall over themselves just wanting to interview him and be part of that process and join in the book launch. Long story short, the book launched incredibly well.
It got Amazon Bestseller within 24 hours for the business category. And it was the first book that Michael had ever done a book launch for like that. And to celebrate, we flew those myself and I called in a few favors to help me out with the launch. So some friends helped me out and then we flew to Carlsbad, California because Michael was running one of the last live events that he ran called the Dreaming Room.
And I went to this course with Michael. We rented this Airbnb, this mack daddy house in Carlsbad, California hanging off the side of some mountain overlooking the ocean. It was just a magical week. And then at the end of that week and spending some time with Michael, and after the event, they wanted me to stay on, there was a, like a private mastermind in his presidential suite because he was in this swanky hotel, and he had this presidential suite, and they had a mastermind where they were just focused on Michael’s future legacy.
And they were talking about, well, what are we going to do, you know, with his body of work and those sorts of things.A and they were trying to get Tony Robbins to actually facilitate it and they had a bunch of just real heavy hitters in the room. And for whatever reason, they couldn’t find the facilitator. So I stuck my hand up and I said look, I’ll facilitate the group for the two-day mastermind. To my surprise, they said, Yes, that’s a great idea. And I got all recorded and it was just an amazing experience to be in that space.
And I can’t believe not more than four months earlier, I didn’t know Michael, I didn’t have any relationship. Here I was, you know, four months later launching the book in Carlsbad, California, facilitating the future direction of his business. And that’s when I got that aha moment where I said, I can see the true benefit of systems. I didn’t see it until that moment, where I realized because I’d systemize the business, I created enough space for me to not only see an opportunity when it fell in my lap but have the space to actually take advantage of that opportunity.
If he had come to me six months earlier, or 12 months earlier, when I was heavily in the business, I would have said look, that’s great, but I’m not sure I can do this because I’ve got kids. I’ve got a business that I’m supporting. I’m the guy. There’s no way I could have worked on it for three months. So I feel like systems really give you an option or an opportunity. And sometimes the opportunity that you don’t even know exists because you might be so busy, you don’t see the opportunity.
There’s a number of opportunities that you might see and have to say no to just because you don’t have the space. But then there’s a number that you just don’t see of these opportunities. So it was a huge lesson for me. And then that was a big driver to write this book because I realized, hang on. There’s something to systems yet it’s such a blind spot for business owners, but it’s quite possibly the most important thing a business owner needs to cross that gap from that brand new startup mode through to, you know, stepping out of the business.
Rick: Sure. Well, before we get into the book, because I do want to get into that, I want to ask you a question because I feel like you put yourself out there, and I like to encourage that from my entrepreneurial community because I’ve always felt like when you get yourself uncomfortable as an entrepreneur, unbelievable things happen. And I mean, let’s face it, I gotta imagine there were a few times in that whole episode you just covered with us that you woke up in the middle of the night with the sweats going, what have I done, right? And to facilitate a group like that? Were you ever uncomfortable, David?
Lean Into the Uncomfortable
David: At numerous parts along where I was uncomfortable from the first email that I got that said, Call me. I’m just thinking, Oh, where’s this going to go? But I’m the same. I’ve learned over the years to lean into the uncomfortable because I know a lot of people won’t do the uncomfortable. So that ends up being my opportunity, my chance to learn to enjoy it because I know that’s where the upside comes from. I know that’s where the growth comes from. So it’s, yeah, for me, it was just, you got to lean into this. And really what’s the worst that can happen? What’s the downside?
There is no downside when you think about it. Like, yeah, I didn’t have that opportunity prior to that moment so let’s just follow the rabbit hole and see where it goes. And the more uncomfortable situations you put yourself in, the better you become at dealing with uncomfortable situations. And then the universe likes to give you bigger, more uncomfortable situations. So you just keep growing into it. I think that’s one thing you got to dom get uncomfortable, and be happy there and then work from uncomfortable.
Rick: Get comfortable with being uncomfortable is a phrase that I like to use. But you also go into this, and this is why, so we’ll get into the book. The freedom formula that I talked about, really is because of the feedback that I’ve gotten from business owners. Just asking them that we all have bigger things that we aspire to do.
And that can mean so much for each individual. But you pinpointed this. A critical step in this is your system. And once you’ve got a product or service that has some ability, or like you said, it could even be from an origination. So tell us a little bit, give us a little overview on the book and why it’s so important to you as your mission. Because you, and please share your mission. You know, as you’ve written this book, you know, share that with our audience. And I’d be interested to know, from your words, why that mission is so important.
David: Yes, so the dream is to free all business owners worldwide from the day to day operations of running the business. So that’s the dream. So the mission then becomes to fulfill that dream, I need to create the system that can organize, extract and optimize the best practice inside a business and I need a system for how that’s done so it can then be done at scale. So the reason I’ve been called to do this work is I’ve, and it was a problem that I had and I know, therefore, you know, I am my target market when it comes to small business owners bridging that gap.
And I’ve had the good fortune to do it a few times in various businesses. Because it is a journey, you go through this staged process and every business starts off with the idea and hustling and grinding it out and getting up to a certain point. But then there are the later stages and that’s, it’s the jump that people struggle with.
And I recognized that and it was through reading books like Traction and Rocket Fuel. I think, I mean, Gino Wickman’s work, more than any over the years, has spoken to me really clearly. This idea that the business owner oftentimes is the visionary. They’re the big person thinker. They see the problem in the world. They create Create the solution that they want to see solve that problem. But because they’re a big visionary thinker, oftentimes, they’re not a detail-oriented person.
And they need the Yin to their Yang because systems and processes is so critical to business, but they live in the blind spot of the business owner. And the business owner has this habit of feeling like they need to solve everything. They think, and it’s the same with systems. They hear about systems and the, you know, they read the E Myth, they get all excited by systems, and then they think, Okay, well, I need to be the one that creates the systems and the processes because I see how important it is.
That’s how I’ve sold every other problem in my business to date therefore, I need to create the systems. But the problem with that thinking is. That we all, I’ve never had a conversation with a business owner where they’ve, we’ve not agreed that systems and processes aren’t important. Everybody knows they’re important. It’s that they’re not urgent. So the business owner never gets around to it, they never find time to do it. And because they are the ones that think that they need to be the ones that create the systems, it just doesn’t get done.
So I feel like the books that I have read to date, again, did great at building the case for systems but none of them really showed how the business owner can solve the problem and overcome a bunch of misconceptions and false beliefs around business systemization that the business owner doesn’t need to create the systems. Business systems don’t remove creativity. People think that even if they create systems, their team aren’t going to follow them anyway. Or that they’re going to need to create hundreds of systems or that they need to systemize like McDonald’s.
Like there’s a bunch of these myths that just send people off on these little random sort of rabbit holes that then they get stuck in. So this book has been designed to speak very specifically to those and challenge those assumptions and then give them the roadmap. Just the first seven steps that someone goes through for systemizing a business. This isn’t Six Sigma. This isn’t Ling. This isn’t some high-end business systemization flowcharty type thing. This is real-world small business, where do I get started?
Rick: Well, and you, I’m glad you brought that up because I’ve been a fan of all the books that you’ve mentioned, and I’ve studied them all. And I’ve sat through the workshops. And, you know, the thing that always got me is, it almost gets layers of complication. And one of the things you pointed out in the book is it’s kind of keep it simple, stupid kind of routine. And I really liked the permission not to have to be the person to put the system in play and created because that’s something that I believe too.
There are people that are better equipped on your team and outside your team to do that. And your book does a great job of going in there and sharing That you tell some stories throughout the book, kind of like case studies and things. And those are great, but I’m always interested, David, like what stories as you research this and put this book together, kind of, give us a little bit of dirt, right? Like what are the stories that maybe didn’t make it into the book that you’d be willing to share with our audience?
Stories That Didn’t Make the Final Cut
David: One jumps out at me immediately because we just told the Michael Gerber story, and I mentioned this before I go into some of the case studies that got left out. But I almost feel like this is the dirty little secret of Michael Gerber that needs to be shared, and that is that and he is known the world over as the Godfather to business systems, but he is not a lover of creating systems and processes.
He doesn’t really like the detail. He just doesn’t do that. He’s a creator. He’s a magnificent creator who can just pull things out of the ether with these ideas. But that was one of the things, in hindsight, I probably should have put it in the book, but I wasn’t too sure if I was treading on a line there to kind of say, it’s not that because you need to understand that idea of the yin and the yang.
But he is a creator. And that’s okay. If you’re a business owner and you don’t like the idea of systems or it doesn’t immediately resonate with you, that’s okay. In fact, it’s a good thing to recognize that so that you can then find the other missing piece. Because you need systems and processes, you just might not be the person to do it. So that was a little one that just popped into my head.
But as far as like stories that didn’t make the final cut, one I remember was there’s a guy called Mike Rhodes who I, he’s an Australian-based guy and he runs a company called Web Savvy. And he is a systems thinker, like, he used to be an E Myth coach, and built up a business, systemized it, sold it from his company in New Zealand and came to Australia and that’s how I came across him when he was in Australia. And he started this digital agency and he went hog wild on creating the systems and I talk about this in the book where I said he over-systemized.
He created so many systems that it ended up becoming a lead weight for the business. But there was another story that I left out because I didn’t want to have two stories to do with him. But he’s, one of his key department heads who heads up the Facebook department of his business for Facebook ads because they run like Google ads and Facebook ads. The business was dependent on him. The, or that department was dependent on this key team member, Trevor.
He knew Facebook really well, but the risk was whenever he wasn’t there, that whole, all those projects would grind to a halt if something happened to Trevor. It was all trapped in his head. And Michael, and Mike saw this is a real risk. So he brought me in to start working with Trevor. And I mean, that was a sign of a good leader and someone who already recognized this. So I don’t need to be the guy. I don’t need to be present or involved in this. Let’s just get Trevor to work to extract it out of his brain. But there was real resistance from Trevor when I first started working with him.
He couldn’t see the benefit. He thought it was going to be time-consuming. He thought it was going to, he couldn’t see because he didn’t have much of a team underneath him. You know, he had one or two assistants, and he said, Why am I spending the time doing this when I’m so busy, and I’ve got all of these clients I’m working on and I need to meet with Dave to identify the key systems and extract them and, you know, let Dave do the documentation.
So, but he, you know, under Mike’s direction, he did it and we started working together over a few month process. It wasn’t until the end of that process that he, it was almost like one of the biggest resistors ended up becoming the biggest champion for systems and processes. Because it wasn’t until he got through the other side and he realized, well, not only did I get to think about the way that I’m doing and capture it, and he said, Oh, you know, I thought I was creating these systems for the staff, which he did end up doing.
But he said, I now use them and refer to them. When I’ve got a call with a client and I want to know, what are the things that I need to touch on, I look at the system that has the talking points. And he goes that then frees me up to be more in the moment and think creative because I don’t need to think about all of the micro-steps and oh, did I ask them this or that? Because he just covers that as part of the system. And he’s gone on now and built out that Facebook division in Mike’s business significantly, they’ve added a team of people underneath Trevor.
And every team member that comes on board goes through this initial set of learning the systems and processes that we created. And now what happens is it’s like he gives them 80% of the knowledge that that new team member needs really easily and they get right up to a certain standard. And then he steps in to deliver the final 20%, answer the questions, fine-tune them and get them on the way. And yeah, I just love that idea that the biggest resistor ended up becoming the biggest champion.
And now he champions systematology in the work that we do through the rest of the business. So it’s, yeah, there’s a bunch of stories like that I wanted to include, and I had them at the end of the book initially, but then when it went to the editor, she’s like, at the end of the book, a few of these just feel out of place. She said, Have one at the end of every chapter, but the rest of them we have to cut. So, but yeah, there’s a lot of stories that I’ve collected along the way.
Rick: So that begs the question, as a follow-up, I know when you have to spend the time to put what’s in your brain on paper in the form of a book, you dig into each topic, you think about it, you chew on it, you marinate, you research. What did you learn as you went through this process of putting this together, this book out?
Lessons David Learned While Writing Systemology
David: when it comes to writing a book, the way, I’ve found the way that I like to write a book because me just sitting down, looking at a blank page and then trying to get something out onto the page that someone wants to read, I find incredibly challenging. I actually find writing a book a slow and painful process. I don’t relish in it, but I love the other side of it. I love once it’s done, I love getting those ideas crystallized. There’s something that happens by taking your best ideas and then sharing them. It also forces you to innovate and get better because if you’re sharing your best ideas, it’s like you’re now releasing that idea into the world.
And then it’s an opportunity to now create the new idea and the next thing and go deeper and think. So my process for writing a book, I found the easiest way, the hack for me, I run, at least I used to previously prior COVID, I’ll run a live event, I will teach the topic, I’ll then get that video transcribed. Once we’ve completed the workshop that transcription goes to the ghostwriter. The ghostwriter has first crack at it based on what he sees from the transcript, then I get that copied back from the ghostwriter. And now I’m incredibly particular, and I end up rewriting the whole thing anyway.
But having that first version and the ability to kind of go, oh, that bit speaks to me. I’ll grab that story and a chance to test the material as well. Like I want to say what connects with the audience. For example, in the book, one of the first things we talk about in the define stage is this process I call the critical client flow. And it’s the way to identify the 20% of the systems in the business that deliver the bulk, you know, the 80% result of the core product or service that you’re delivering. That step actually used to be step number four in the systematology process.
And it was only through iteration and getting the feedback and people going, No, this is your best bet. So I moved that to the stand, and then it just everything clicked into gear. So I think there’s no, the short answer to your question, what did I learn, was no matter how deeply you think you know the topic, it’s not until you get the feedback loop and you take it to market that you can go, Oh, yes, this is working. Part of the process is going around and iterating and improving and polishing. And that’s what speaks to the final chapter in the book where I say don’t systemize like McDonald’s.
Most people think, they look to McDonald’s as the poster child of business systemization and everybody goes, yes, systemized like McDonald’s. And yes, there is loads to be learned from McDonald’s, but McDonald’s has been systemizing for 60 years. If you try and systemize like they are today, that’s like going up against an Olympic athlete who’s been training their whole life who’s lean, mean, fighting machine systemized business like nothing else.
And here you are, a flevy couch potato, at least I felt like I was, and I’m trying to systemize like them. No, you systemize like McDonald’s was 60 years ago. And you iterate on that so I’m imagining systematology over the time like will evolve, continue to evolve because I’ve got that open-loop now we’re putting as much businesses and business owners and there’s, you know, operations people through the program to see, to make sure it affects the result and goes back to the mission. And I need to create that system to be able to extract, organize and optimize best practice in the business.
Rick: Fantastic. Well, I am so glad that I got to see an early copy and I can’t wait to get my official book. But Systemology is the name of the book. I imagine Amazon, it’s available on Amazon by the time this episode airs. How else can people learn, David? We’re coming towards the end of our time today. And I hope we’ll have you back because I’m interested to see, you know, a year from now down the road, what’s changed for you and new opportunities that present themselves. But if somebody wants to learn more, I know there’s resources, I know you have a website available for those resources. How do people find that information?
David: Yeah, best place to go is just systemology.com/book. That’ll get you the links through to where the Amazon is. Because we’re coming out when it launches and the book most likely will be live by the time you listen to this. So you can head to Amazon. We’re doing a hardback, a Kindle and the audiobooks. I’ve got, the audiobook was really fun because I went into the studio, I read it myself. There’s a few easter eggs in there with Michael’s permission, I’ve got a few extra recordings.
Let’s just leave it at that. But the audiobook is a really fun version as well. And then on that website as well, if you are, you know, into podcasts and things like that, I’ve got a podcast myself where I interview business leaders, have them share a system or a process and then we document it. It’s a little bit different from Rick’s podcast in that I really just focus on the system side of things. I think that’s where I feel like I can add the most value. And I don’t so much go into the history as I just say, What’s the problem? How do you solve it? Let’s turn it into a system.
Rick: I love it. I love it. Well as we know, it takes all sorts of people and ideas out there. But I love the work you’re doing and I wish you the very best. I can’t wait to see how things turn out. And hang on with us just a second, and we’ll follow up after the show. David if you’ll just hold tight. Folks, you’ve been listening to another episode of the Over 50 Entrepreneur Podcast. Be sure to check out our website epicsbiz.com/podcast. You’ll get today’s podcast episode and the show notes that go with it along with other resources. And until next time, remember, we’re only getting started.